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It seems another LJ drama is unfolding. boonies defriended reiku, and now everyone and their brother thinks it's their right to 'defend' their friend by showing boonies the 'error of her ways'. That's a direct quote by the way.

It seems I don't really get communities. Why does everyone have to jump onto the bandwagon when something like this happens? This is self-righteousness at its best, in my opinion. And please, don't try to argue that this is what friendship is all about -- being outraged on someone else's behalf. From what I've seen, the *only* thing holding any online communitiy together are common interests. In this case it's a fandom and I've seen what happens when someone drifts away from the fandom. That person becomes less and less interesting to the others. There might be some true friendships here but not many, I don't think.

So boonies wasn't exactly diplomatic. So what? It happens to everyone. It won't get better with a hoard of people demanding she apologize and/or be flogged publicly (figuratively speaking). Even if it was a mistake, which one of you would admit to it in these circumstances?

Just let it go already.

Comments

( 16 comments — Leave a comment )
(Deleted comment)
technoelfie
Sep. 5th, 2004 02:57 am (UTC)
I believe you about your friendship. But friendship doesn't mean you have the right to attack someone else on her behalf. And I read your posting in your LJ, and boonies' first answer still sounded very civil to me, considering you chose to enter a debate, if I can call it that, that's none of your business.

I mean, really. It was a throwaway comment about fucking hair! Not Sesshoumaru's hair, and she didn't mention your friend anywhere.
Sorry, but the drama is killing me.

And this does too: 'Don't assume people haven't got vaild reasons for their actions.' oh, yes. boonies has seen war. She was shocked by an event that possibly brought back traumatic memories. I've only been shot at once, but the reaction the the memory is not exactly rational, believe me. It's as valid a reason to trim her friends list as yours is to attack her on your friend's behalf. Over hair.
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technoelfie
Sep. 5th, 2004 11:48 am (UTC)
First of all -- Sandra's post was not a flame. Flames are about persons, and her post wasn't. Also, flames are worded differently. As always, it's all a matter of opinion, isn't it?

Sorry, I'm a girl that accepts few excuses. Harsh, but true.


Oh. And I should care about this because?

I really want to know, do you honestly think it is okay that [info]reiku_toukijin was hurt by [info]boonies words?

Could you be any more melodramatic?

Shall we all just turn a blind eye to that kind of behaviour?

Um... yes?

Also, the behaviour you displayed in your LJ, up to the screaming in your later comments, was absolutely puerile IMO. And just as worthy of criticism.

Please, don't presume anything about our friendship or that my reasons are shallow.

Of course I will presume whatever I want based on how I view your behaviour.

Try to remember that I too am a person with a past and feelings and real motivations. I hurt and I get angry. And I do what I feel is right, which you can't invalidate because of what you think or feel.

The only reason I did step in is because you were consciously aiming to hurt someone else who hadn't done anything to you personally. An eye for an eye (and not your eye either, I might add) or some such rubbish. And make no mistake, I do have a right to speak my mind, same as you do. If you think lashing out at me just because I don't share your opinion will help you any, you're welcome to keep doing it of course.
essie07
Sep. 4th, 2004 07:31 pm (UTC)
We aren't demanding an apology. We're just trying to figure out what brought on the rage so randomly. I didn't jump at the chance to protect reiku because she's my friend. I did it for the principle of the matter. Yeah, we all know that Russia is going through some terrible times and I'm sure some of us really wish that we could do something to help. But, crying over Russia and then randomly taking your anger out on someone who just happened to post something silly, is uncalled for and completely rude.

I'm not out to corner anyone or demand for an apology. I'm realistic in the sense that what's done is done. I just want to know how someone could be THAT angry and justify their flaming someone for posting a randomly silly post. Sure, maybe half the people on boonies flist post the same silly stuff that most of us do, but it seems that the one who received the majority of boonies' anger happened to be reiku. That's what I thought was really unfair and extremely cruel.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you sound like you've jumped on the bandwagon as well. And if I made a mistake, I would admit it.

I'm not going to involve myself in this anymore. I just wanted some answers. I'm sure I won't be getting any answers, so there, I'll let it go.

Aside from the LJ drama, I still admire who you are and what you're capable of with drawing and animation.
technoelfie
Sep. 5th, 2004 03:05 am (UTC)
I just want to know how someone could be THAT angry and justify their flaming someone for posting a randomly silly post.

Calling those tiny three sentences a flame is going a bit too far.

In involving myself in this, even if by asking everyone to just mind their ow business instead of lashing out at someone who hasn't done anything to them personally and demanding an explanation that's not theirs to deman I have jumped on the bandwagon. You're right. It's the first time I've done so in any community.

I guess the sheer ridiculousness of it all got me.

And I think boonies posted an answer, a very polite one at that, in hang_nga_79's journal.

Aside from the LJ drama, I still admire who you are and what you're capable of with drawing and animation.

Thank you. I do not judge/get angry at people based on their net conduct. I might get angry over views they hold. I hope there's a difference. Just because we have a different opinion on this doesn't mean I think less of you as a person.
wrongly_amused
Sep. 4th, 2004 07:36 pm (UTC)
Let me take a third person stance outside of this since, thank goodness, I was lucky enough to avoid the drama and really don't know what the hell's going on. My own experiences in bad drama have taught me a few things:

1 - Defriending someone you regularly converse with for whatever reason without speaking to them first - not cool. It was done to me, then spoken to others BEHIND my back, before the info ever reached my eyes. I was hurt and upset by that. It's a natural human reaction, internet or not. Some of these relationships are not just interests. Ex: Reiku and I are close. If we were in real life, we'd share the same friendship, only closer. (Er, minus the lesbian sex/marriage thing.) This isn't true all of the time, but rejection still can be painful.

2 - Defriending just because others defriend? Ergle, not the best option either *unless* the actions shown are reason enough that you feel they're something you can't live with on your LJ. I'm a bit guilty in having started this once, but I didn't demand my flist to get rid of Sara. That was their choice. One of the biggest rules of my flist is that *I* am the person your friending, so keep your issues with me and not anyone else on it, even if you don't like that person. (Example: Part of the reason somebody de-friended me once is because I was "fangirling" a member they didn't like. Okay, screw them.)

3 - Civility is everything. If reiku was mature enough to delete the angry message she had intended, then boonies should show the same respect - especially when it comes to what's said behind the friends cut. One of the biggest LJ regrets I have is how I handled the Sara incident. Later, when she and I spoke frankly over IM, I apologized to her about how it was handled. If I ever de-friend someone again, I won't be as rude again.

4 - technoelfie, you're right. Everyone ranting and getting angry about this isn't going to solve anything. If they have their personal reasons for defriending, then so be it, but this is a conflict that needs to remain mostly between boonies and reiku and dont so PRIVATELY.

Thank you and goodnight.
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(Deleted comment)
(Anonymous)
Sep. 4th, 2004 10:03 pm (UTC)
I really hate to get involved, but it's really really bugging me. technoelfie, you can delete this if ya want.

hang_nga_79, You say that your friend was puublicly flamed, even though her name wasn't mentioned... Before she said anything about it, did anyone else know it was her? Cuz I read boonies flist, and I certainly didn't know it was her.
(Deleted comment)
hardlyfatal
Sep. 5th, 2004 12:16 pm (UTC)
Because I can tell you that she knew who it was meant for.

What, suddenly you're all mind-readers?

I have to stand by my friend and denouce that kind of thoughtless cruelty.

If you think that what boonies did was cruel, then I envy you your naiveté because on a scale of 1 to 10, that rates a 0.73. Battered wives, rape victims, and OH YEAH those kids who were killed by terrorists: they know cruelty. You, my friend, do not.

Dude, it was a throwaway comment about hair. It wasn't a denunciation of Reiku. It wasn't a declaration of hatred, a statement of unworthiness, an avowal of bloodshed. It was someone clumsily stating she was bored with a certain type of post.

Y'all need to get a sense of perspective. Emotions are high, esp. with the Russia thing. With all the anger and real cruelty in the world, can't you find it in yourself to be forgiving and just move the hell on?
(Deleted comment)
(Anonymous)
Sep. 5th, 2004 04:15 pm (UTC)
I don't know what amuses me more: The fact that Reiku isn't even fighting anymore and you are, or that you're using sarcasm when boonies was sarcastic and you took her literally.

It hurt reiku to the point she was driven to write a rant.

I do so hate to be sadistic, but writing a rant? That's all? Because she wrote a rant, is the world going to end? Is writing a rant the same as cutting wrists? Needing therapy? Believe me, there are worse things she could've done.

I'm sorry, but I doubt that caused her that much pain. And if it did, then it is my honest opinion that she needs to break away from LJ for a very long time and get back to the real world.

Then again, she's not the one saying all this crap. So maybe it's not her who needs to.

This battle isn't going to be won by either side. boonies isn't even around anymore, and Reiku hasn't said much lately. So, um, grow up?
hang_nga_79
Sep. 5th, 2004 04:18 pm (UTC)
Well, gee... I can see you read my latest LJ entry before making this comment.

Or not. When you have, you'll see why I'm not going to reply to anything you are saying.

wrongly_amused
Sep. 5th, 2004 12:45 am (UTC)
Ergle...not to fuel this further, but, yeah, as soon as I heard that ref, I knew it was Reiku she was talking about. As would anyone else who's even heard of Reiku. a_hollow_year would know, Essie and Hang Nga would know, hardlyfatal would realize it, I knew, and Reiku herself would have certainly have known it was she who was being referred to, and probably countless others I don't know about.

Having made the same mistake where I publicly de-friended somebody in anger, I know the pain it can cause to debase somebody like that in front of others. Except unlike me, boonies had no provocation that I saw to lash out particularly at Reiku in that manner.

The thing I do disagree with is how Hang Nga and Essie have jumped to Reiku's defense. While I understand how easy to join in a friend's defense - I've made the same mistake before - Reiku had neither made a big deal about it or asked that others defend her. At this point, them pursuing it would be more out of their spite than in Reiku's best interest.

In other words, this needs to be dropped and now. Let it go. [Unknown LJ tag] has apparently left LJ and Reiku was already tired of it before it even began. So let's stop fighting. If some of you still feel the need to continue, do it privately. It's not fair to everyone involved, particularly technoelfie since she's a third party, that we keep arguing about this in her journal.
technoelfie
Sep. 5th, 2004 03:08 am (UTC)
I? Censor my LJ? Never. :P

I guess the Inuyasha community knew.
technoelfie
Sep. 5th, 2004 03:07 am (UTC)
If they have their personal reasons for defriending, then so be it, but this is a conflict that needs to remain mostly between [info]boonies and [info]reiku_toukijin and dont so PRIVATELY.

Word. :) On most that you've said, actually. ♥
hardlyfatal
Sep. 4th, 2004 11:08 pm (UTC)
I have no idea what any of this is about. But I've seen the wankery that goes on within certain pairing cliques, and it can get ugly. People who are so obsessed with which fictional person belongs with which other fictional person scare me.

I've seen it with the Legolas/Aragorn shippers, and had a harrowing close-call with the Elijah/Dom RPS ficcers (those guys are fucking nuts). It all comes down to what we discussed earlier today, sweetie: respect for other people's thoughts and beliefs.
technoelfie
Sep. 5th, 2004 03:11 am (UTC)
Indeed. I'm quite sure some people will be quite angry with me when this is over, but I felt the whole screaming about a little hair remark needed a bit of a counterbalance. *shrug*

I feel so grown-up right now. Quite old, really. Positively ancient. :P
anjali_organna
Sep. 5th, 2004 04:59 pm (UTC)
This is not aimed at you, technoelfie, or anyone else in particular. I just wanted to say that on the other side of things, as a friend of San's who knew her from the HP fandom only, I can tell you what a shock it was to read my flist this morning and see San's latest post. I had no clue what happened and why San would be leaving lj. When someone else told me (briefly) what happened, I was more than a little annoyed that this would have escalated to the point where San would feel the need to leave lj. Was San's post rude? Sure. People lose their tempers, it happens. My point is, more things have been lost by this than one girl's temporary dignity.
muffytaj
Sep. 6th, 2004 04:43 am (UTC)
You know, up until this post, I had no idea any of the ranty posts on my flist were related. Man, am I thick or what?

I hate it when my flist fight. It's like when my parents used to fight - make me wonder if they're going to get divorced of something.

People keep saying boonies flamed, but I can't read what she actually said, and so can't judge it for myself. Or what other people said.

I am confused, and rather anxious that my flist is at arms.
( 16 comments — Leave a comment )